"Translating Chinese danmei novels into Western languages," roundtable organized by Zhang, Wenqian

[starandrea]

Last month geraineon linked to an online roundtable on translating danmei, hosted by the University of Exeter. That roundtable was October 30, with five speakers and an audience of 150 people, and I enjoyed it tremendously.

Two of the presenters had powerpoint slides they gave explicit verbal permission to share. I've transcribed those slides below, adding a few notes in italics where I thought additional detail from the discussion might add clarity.

"Roundtable: Translating Chinese danmei novels into Western languages"

Cross-Cultural Digital Exchange
Chinese Internet Literature Meets the UK
Researcher: Zhang, Wenqian

Other Presenters
English Translator: Suika (Heaven Official's Blessing, Mo Dao Zu Shi)
Russian Translator: Tatiana Karpova (classical literature, Heaven Official's Blessing)
Spanish Translator: Marina Lopez-Duarte Bandini (Scum Villain's Self-Saving System, manhua)
Italian Translator: Giulia Carbone

Tatiana's slides
Challenge 1: Diverse Audience
Managing Different Reader Groups

- Chinese culture enthusiasts
* Familiar with terminology
* Prefer minimal localization

- New readers
* Need more context
* Prefer accessible language

- Fan community
* Active participation
* Specific expectations

Challenge 2: Translation Strategies
Finding the Right Balance

- Foreignization vs Domestication
* Fan preference for foreignisation
* General audience needs for accessibility

- Statistical evidence:
* Too many Chinese terms reduce reader engagement
* Need for balanced approach

Challenge 3: Idioms (Chengyu)
Evolution of Translation Practices

Traditional Approach:
- Match with equivalent local idioms
- Avoid culturally specific substitutions

New Approach:
- More literal translations
- Preservation of Chinese imagery
- Reader-driven changes

Example:
- 藏龙卧虎 (hidden dragon crouching tiger)
- Traditional: "undiscovered talent"
- Modern: literal translation preferred

Challenge 4: Technical Aspects
Transcription and Naming

Palladius System:
- Standard for Russian sinologists
- Focus on uniformity over phonetic accuracy

Toponym Rules:
- Include category with name
- Example: "Huanghe River" vs "Huang River"
- Maintained despite fan suggestions

Challenge 5: Text Consistency
Managing Original Content Issues

- Dealing with inconsistencies in source material
[Star's note: examples of inconsistencies were typos and errors in the original text]
- Editorial solutions:
* Careful wording choices
* Maintaining original meaning
* Smoothing narrative flow

Web Novel Translation Specifics
Beyond Basic Translation

Required Skills:
- High-level language proficiency
- Chinese history knowledge
- Classical literature understanding
- Modern slang familiarity

Additional Challenges:
- Intense reader scrutiny
- Word-by-word analysis by fans
- Balance between literal and meaningful translation

Key Takeaways

1. Web novel translation requires diverse expertise
2. Reader interaction shapes translation decisions
3. Balance between tradition and innovation
4. Cultural knowledge is essential
5. Attention to detail is crucial

Giulia's slides
Between Two Worlds
The balancing act of translating danmei
For the Italian audience

New perspective on China through danmei
Danmei novels can offer a fresh perspective on China,
reshaping and enriching common perceptions of the country

Challenges in Translation
* No guidelines
[Star's note: Suika mentioned experiencing the opposite in English translation, that there are so many editorial guidelines for how terms are rendered, and whether they're in pinyin or not, that a lot of the things she gets flak for are out of her control.]
* Complexity of worldbuilding
* Collaborative approach
[Star's note: Suika also mentioned "too many cooks" when she works with multiple translators and then they pass it up the line and it goes through many editors, versus "too few cooks" when she's the only translator and no one else on the team knows Chinese.]

Targeting a broader audience
* Target audience
* Project purpose
[Star's note: Suika also brought up "project purpose," and she and Giulia both said the purpose is usually to increase readership of the publisher's books - not a particular book, but any and all of their books - so faithfulness to the original is not as important as putting out something that gets exposure and drives sales.]
* Accessibility
* Translation choices: "speaking names"

Balancing fandom expectations and accessibility

- Fan Expectations
* Connection: Established ties through existing translations
* Terminology: Expectations for familiar terms and character dynamics

- New readers
* Accessibility: Need for clear understanding of cultural references
* Context: Balance between explanation and immersion in the story
[Star's note: an example of this that came up repeatedly was footnotes and whether they help or hinder reader engagement. Opinions were mixed and so was the power: sometimes it's up to the translators and sometimes it's up to the editors.]

- Bridging Both Audiences
* Dual Approach: retain pinyin for familiar terms, translate others for clarity
* Glossary: Offers deeper cultural insights for all readers

Professional VS Fan Translations

- Familiarity with Fan Translations
* Detail: Fan translations often include extensive footnotes
* Engagement: This characteristic enriches the reading experience

- Professional Translation Approach
* Minimized Footnotes: Keep footnotes to a minimum for fluidity
* Narrative Flow: Aim to avoid interruptions in the reading experience

- Seamless Reading Experience
* Direct Interventions: Adapt terms directly in the text
* Balance: Strive for familiarity while enhancing accessibility

Sensitivity Readers and faithfulness to the original

- Role of Sensitivity Readers
* Critical feedback on cultural adaptations
* Collaborated with native Chinese speakers with diverse backgrounds

- Analyzing Cultural Terms
* Discussed the term 魔界圣君 mójiè shèng jūn
[Star's note: Giulia mentioned that in Italy it would be offensive to associate the terms "holy" and "demonic" but in China the phrase is not offensive, so she looked for an alternate title that would convey the same feeling (with the intent to evoke similar reactions among Italian readers as there would have been among Chinese readers). She says "we went with something like 'Supreme King of the Demonic Realm' instead of 'holy king.'"]
* Explored differences in emotional resonance between Chinese and Italian

- Faithfulness and Engagement
* Collaborative Decision
* Intent vs. Literal Translation

Final Thoughts
Can we truly achieve a satisfying balance?
* Broad Audience
* Passionate Fandom
* Existing Translations
* Cultural Respect

In conclusion [more of Star's notes]
Just a few more miscellaneous things that stood out to me:

Suika did an entire fan translation of Heaven Official's Blessing, THEN contacted Seven Seas with her business proposal: to let them professionally publish her manuscript. (She said she wanted to publish it herself, but the license was too expensive.) Seven Seas agreed.

(Suika adds that her proposal was all about how much money they could make based on the audience she calculated and the work she'd already done. Her background is business, not translation. She says for her translation is a labor of love born of "typical child of first gen immigrant experiences.")

Suika also responded to a question from the audience about how to handle fan complaints, and she said, "they tell us to touch grass." She said sometimes it's not good for a translator's mental health to read the comments, so the editorial team will filter them and provide the translators with a relevant summary of comments if they think it will help future work. Suika added that the publisher frankly tells them, "The comments only hurt your feelings, they don't hurt sales." (Because once a translation hits the mainstream bookstores, the majority of readers are not people who are online talking about translation choices or faithfulness to source material.)

(Giulia said she was sorry Suika had dealt with mean comments from fans, but she was also glad it wasn't just her!)

Most of the translators also responded to an audience question about how they handled translating material that might not be well-received in their own countries: a specific example was queer relationships in Russia. Tatiana said it hasn't come up for her because there wasn't anything explicit in the books she translated. (It wasn't clear if this was an evasion, given she said her English wasn't good enough to understand the question, so both the question and her answer were translated (via Chinese) by the moderators.)

Marina said her audience loves "spicy scenes" no matter who's in them, and "the spicier the better." Suika agreed, saying the English translators were careful to translate every spicy scene as thoroughly as possible. She added that the English audience is more sensitive to politically incorrect terms like "dumb," "retard," and "lame," giving "The Husky and His White Cat Shizun" as an example of "dumb" being deliberately removed from the translation so as not to alienate the publisher's intended audience.

And for one more random thing I can't forget: Marina says she likes translating manhua better than novels because it's easier to gauge intent when there are pictures, but onomatopoeias are hard. ♥

Comments

[halfcactus]

Thank you so much for sharing this! The bit about having to come up with an appropriate alternative to "holy" and "demonic" is so interesting.

so faithfulness to the original is not as important as putting out something that gets exposure and drives sales is a curious point to me. I'm also really curious about language sensitivity and the way that the English translation removes words... would love to see a broader conversation about it, but I don't think the world is ready for it, haha.

[trobadora]

Thank you for sharing this!

[thispatternismine]

Oooh interesting. Thank you for this.

[geraineon]

Thank you so much for sharing this! This is very interesting to read and I wish I had not forgotten about this orz

I kinda wish translators don't feel so tied to established fan terminology ("established" is just one translation of it after all). And agreed with halfcactus, the bit about faithfulness being secondary to sales is interesting

[dayadhvam_triad]

Thanks for sharing this! Very interesting, chewing over those toponym rules.

[sam_gardener]

Thank you, this is really interesting.