Discussion Friday

[geraineon]

Today's discussion topic is about narrative method (I don't know the proper term for this so bear with me).

Some stories are told from the beginning, chronologically to the end. Some starts at the end, and then we go back to the beginning. Some are told incorporating outsider POV, some incorporate social media. Some just mess with the timeline.

What have you read that you thought was a unique narrative method? Did it work?

What do you wish there's more of?

(Sorry this is late! I had several pet health issues to deal with this week... It's all good now, I hope)

Comments

[geraineon]

Responding before I get utterly distracted by my cat seeking attention (she's had a fever, diarrhea, vomiting, it's been a lot this week) and I'll go back to the previous post and respond to the rest!

I like it when the POV character is obviously getting a lot of things wrong (I guess this is unreliable narrator? but also not really?) resulting in a comedy of errors (but not in a second-hand embarrassment way).

I also like it if the story is told in a non-linear way (but for a reason). Or messy time travel.

This is not cnovel, but I enjoyed House of Leaves a lot because it uses space, font, etc. everything, and clippings and other stuff.

(this is a discussion post to solicit recs for unusual story structure/writing)

[silverblade219]

I hope your cat feels better soon!!!

[douqi]

So sorry about your cat! Hope she feels a little better soon.

I also enjoyed House of Leaves, what a glorious mindfuck.

[aurumcalendula]

I hope your cat feels better!

I also like comedy of errors stuff if it avoids hitting my second-hand embarrassment squick (imho They All Said I Met a Ghost was pretty good at that).

[halfcactus]

LOL I wish House of Leaves wasn't so physically heavy! I should aim to finish it...

(I hope you and your cat have a better week too)

[shipperslist]

I know a lot of people find MDZS confusing because it's both non-linear narrative and very unreliable narrator but I liked it and keep wishing I could reread it again for the first time (and with no knowledge from CQL to spoil all the goodies. and by goodies I mean the golden core reveal).

[full_metal_ox]

I’m also struck by MDZS’ use of narrative negative space, as it were: the specifics of the golden core transplant, and of Wei Wuxian’s dark epiphany in the Burial Mounds; the truth of whatever really went down with the Lan parents; the origins of Wen (né Zhao) Zhuliu’s devastating special ability and the nature of his debt to Wen Ruohan; Yanling Daoren (mentioned in a throwaway line in Chapter 40: Cangse Sanren and Xiao Xingchen’s martial older brother, who was first to descend from the mountain) and how his corruption came about—if in fact it did, given the unreliability of posthumous reputation. Heck, the dizi is an iconic ability of Wei Wuxian’s, and we never find out when and how he learned it!

These haunting lacunae send the message that sometimes opportunities are forever lost, and that you have to accept the impossibility of a conclusive answer; they also imply the existence of a bigger, older, and more complex universe than the story at hand can contain.

(I personally have no problem with anachronic order, since I’m in the odd habit of regarding stories more as places to explore than linear sequences of events.)

[shipperslist]

Someone (perhaps even you?) mentioned at some point how the negative space makes everything more horrible because what is left unsaid is undefined and only the characters' (or the readers') imaginations are the limit for what happened.

[ehyde]

I liked MDZS's past/present arcs too, I found it similar to how Ancillary Justice was structured, seeing past and present side by side as the past gradually puts the present into more context.

One thing that comes to mind is, iirc, we hear about WWX supposedly killing Jin Ling's parents before we ever meet JYL, and there's no emotional connection at all at first it's just another fact about the world, and gradually as we get to know her we start to feel like okay, maybe that's not true either, so many other things that "everyone knows" were wrong maybe that also will turn out different? Maybe there's hope? And then ...

[shipperslist]

I didn't even realize the Jin Ling's parents thing because I already knew that from the drama! DAMN that would've been neat to realize gradually while reading.

[lee_bella]

Many "going back in time and starting over" stories and "being revived years later" stories tend to have two timelines running parallel to one another. It's just a matter of how much the author wants to reveal and at what point in time are the past/flasback scenes revealed within the story. None of the danmei novels I read goes to quite the extent that MDZS (and TGCF) did with the extensive past arcs, however.

Novels that I thought strike a good balance between the past and present timelines are priest's Drowning Sorrows in Raging Fire and Wang Ya's Evening Snow. Lu Ye Qian He's Zhuolu sticks the past scenes at the end of each chapter. Cang Wu Bin Bai's Return to the Jade Captial (还玉京) used a catalyst to handle the flashback scenes.

Cyan Wings sometimes inserts one big past arc in the second half of the story right at the pivotal moment (I won't mention which books since it would be a spoiler). She did something quite interesting with Cultivating in Online Games. The main character has entered an online RPG game based on his world, and pivotal scenes in his past life are treated as main story quests within the game, which leads to revealing details that he didn't know about at the time.

Su Huai Huang specialises in crematorium stories where the MC dies and returns to the past. So there is the ongoing current timeline, the past timeline from the MC's perspective, and the past timeline from the ex-love interest's perspective. The ways that the MC and the love interest view their relationship are quite different. Cang Wu Bin Bai did that too in The Transition Period of a Break-up (分手过渡期), though that one isn't a "return to the past" story.

Not really related, in Zhichu's BE Crazy Demon Survival System, the writer main character re-examines his life and his past by re-examining his own bad ending novels through the fresh lens of a love simulation game. It's quite a brilliant plot device. His end goal is to roleplay as the main characters and romance the love interests, who are

Spoiler

somewhat modelled after the guy he has feelings for in real life.)

[shipperslist]

Cyan Wings sometimes inserts one big past arc in the second half of the story right at the pivotal moment
Oh yes!
Highlight for spoilers!*I really enjoyed Mr Melancholy but the revelation of who Yu Hua really is and how his story goes for him put the story in a whole new context. Hm. I probably should read it again... 🤔*

[douqi]

priest's End of the Bridge, Top of the Tower does a lot of fun stuff with a novel-within-a-novel, and discussions in the novel comment sections leading to plot-important discoveries. I thought it worked well.

[aurumcalendula]

I really liked that one and agree that it worked well! tbh, I think it might be my favorite of hers.

[halfcactus]

+100 this is the first book that popped into my head

I especially liked going in without knowing that it was a novel-within-a-novel. And the writing style + commentary on the writing style + the overall meta experience. ♥