Discussion Friday

[geraineon]

Time for Discussion Friday again!

Have you encountered references to Western* media in the c-novels you read (e.g., classic English novels, songs, movies)? In what context/how were they used? What did you think about their usage (e.g., did you know the references well, were they appropriate, have you experienced a time when a reference took you out of the story?)?

Feel free to talk about fanfics as well! Or anything else related to this.

*interpret "Western media" however you like

Comments

[geraineon]

The first that I can think of is not actually a c-novel but I want to mention it anyway: Omniscient Reader's Viewpoint.

There's Jurassic Park! XD

Anyway, when it comes to c-novels, I guess the first that comes to mind is Kaleidoscope of Death. One of the doors is based on Grimm's fairy tales iirc. Fairy tales can be pretty horrifying, so hey, good use of fairy tale (every other door is based on stuff like urban legends, folk tales, etc.). I'm sure there are more, but can't quite recall them right now.

[aurumcalendula]

I was not expecting the song 'You Raise Me Up' to show up in Mo Du (especially since Josh Groban's version is the one that tends to come to mind for me), and it kinda took me out of the story.

[geraineon]

Now I'm trying to imagine this in audio drama form and I imagine it will be a lot more jarring XD

[halfcactus]

I lol'd the first time bc I was so not expecting it but it grew on me and the audio component turned out to have some good emotional payoff towards the end when

spoiler

(IIRC) Fei Du changes his ringtone to be the same as Luo Wenzhou's

[silverblade219]

Not sure if this counts, but Little Mushroom has a lot more Christian imagery than I was expecting towards the end half.

[geraineon]

I haven't read Little Mushroom though I do want to! What kind of Christian references does it have?

[halfcactus]

From what I remember, each case/volume from Silent Reading/Modu is based on a piece of western literature! And there's actually an in-universe and plot-relevant radio station reading out each novel. It was part of the mystery and very very cool.

End of the Bridge, Top of the Tower had a plot-relevant reference to an international social media phenomenon that began in Russia.

And, as mentioned upthread, a surprising amount of Christian imagery/references/themes in Little Mushroom. And classical music. And excellent use of Do not go gentle into that good night as one of its central references.

Cdrama-adjacent:

I've only seen the cdrama adaptation (known as Tender Light) of the controversial cnovel 小南风, but that one had western poetry as a running theme (with the main characters bonding over poetry books), and I liked it! Also from what I remember the cdrama adaptation (if not the novel) was based on an Italian movie.

[halfcactus]

And since knovels have been brought up upthread: One of the FANTASY manhwa I was reading (that I'm 90% sure was based on a novel) suddenly had the FL singing Taylor Swift lyrics, except it was retranslated from Korean to English, so it wasn't quite the same but was still recognizable. It took me out LMFAO.

[full_metal_ox]

This wasn’t an isekai story?

[geraineon]

XD

I guess I shouldn't be surprised there are Taylor Swift references, but I still am. What manhwa is this?

[neigette]

Bridge novel: ohhh wow, I didn't know that began in Russia

There's also a Brave New World reference in both Bridge novel and CBEM!

[geraineon]

Ohh I forgot about Modu's references! And the radio station!

What was controversial about the cnovel 小南风?

[halfcactus]

I think it was an age gap situation where the FL was a married adult (in an abusive situation that she wanted to leave) while the ML was a (high school?) student who wanted to save her... I don't remember how old they were in the drama but they must have aged the characters up a bit (the ML was 18+) while still retaining the age gap and taboo? And the author of the novels has plagiarism allegations (there was an entire circus around the 2019 movie Better Days because of it).

[autodach]

Mo Du comes to mind. Not just the "you raise me up" song, but also the chapter names that give you a hint to the themes of this arc. I thought it was done very elegantly.
I recognized all but one of the names, even though I have not (fully) read any of the works.

[geraineon]

Mo Du is mentioned a few times and I can't believe I forgot all the references XD Guess it has been a few years.

[ehyde]

This comes up as often (more often?) in Japanese media as Chinese but sometimes I'm just like, you don't have to name every mysterious little girl "Alice," please 😂

Transmigration stories using english as a secret code between transmigrators will never get old though.

[geraineon]

Oh yeah, Japan *loves* Alice in the Wonderland. So many Alice in the Wonderland inspired stories! Maybe that's why there are so many "Alice."

[katzenfabrik]

I was really surprised to find that a plot point in a Gu Long story was cribbed entirely from the story of Snow White! There being a villainess who killed or disfigured other women whom she thought were more beautiful than her didn't strike me as too strange, but when she turned out to have a full-on magic mirror that kept her up-to-date on her status as most beautiful in the land, it got more obvious where Gu Long got his inspiration from, haha.

I really don't know how well-known European fairytales or their Disney adaptations would have been in 1970s Taiwan. Would the original audience have noticed, or not?

Highlight for info on which story I'm talking about: *Books 1 and 2 of the Chu Liuxiang series, Fragrance in the Sea of Blood and The Desert.*

[douqi]

Gu Long was very into his Western pulp references too! The Chu Liuxiang series has James Bond vibes, and Meteor, Butterfly, Sword is inspired by The Godfather.

[geraineon]

I have heard that Meteor, Butterfly, Sword is inspired by The Godfather (I tried watching an adaptation and bounced off it, not sure why... China, stop adapting Jin Yong, go adapt a bit more Gu Long!!!)

[douqi]

I think I read about a bunch of Gu Long licences being scooped up for adaptations a while back. Predictably, Weibo users were generally pessimistic. One comment I remember reading was: 'Oh, so now they've finished ruining Jin Yong, they're going to ruin Gu Long. Typical.'

[douqi]

The sci-fi baihe novel Ant's Nest has references to: Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Nietzsche, Borges, Handmaid's Tale and Ender's Game. And very loose interpretation of the discussion topic, but: there's an ongoing historical novel by baihe author Lü Bu Wei where each chapter is told from a third-person limited viewpoint (think A Song of Ice and Fire) and the author seems to think of this as a fairly new formal experiment.

[geraineon]

That's a neat set of things to reference. What is Ant's Nest about?

And huh, interesting. Has there not been other cnovels that has switching third person limited viewpoint?

[douqi]

It's basically quite old-school sci-fi in terms of vibes and themes (though written in 2018). Set about a hundred years later, in a society under a high level of surveillance where the population is almost entirely female, with very few men. There's a radical group demanding equal rights for men, which kicks off part of the plot.

Has there not been other cnovels that has switching third person limited viewpoint?
This is a very good question, I feel. The c-novels I've read and remember reading all seem pretty fluid in terms of POV except where they're first-person (and even then that can sometimes get wonky).

[dayadhvam_triad]

Several references to Greek mythology pop up in 3K Workers. My favorite is the one involving Antaeus: while fighting in battle against the protag & her soldiers, an enemy general is reminded of the legend he heard from a Parthian merchant in the past, who explained the story behind an engraved silver cup as he peddled his wares—about a giant born from Gaia, who couldn't be defeated so long as he stood on the earth. This leads into a great scene transition where the narration switches to another nearby battle that's linked to the first; its turning point hinges on the actions of commoners. The chapter ends, But how was this even possible? They were as insignificant as dirt. Commoners as dirt, as earth... it's an implicit callback to Antaeus, because those commoners' action to support the protag's side is what enables their strategic victory.

One of my favorite TKA cfics mentions the Book of Job and quotes August Strindberg's Dance of Death. I didn't know the latter, had to look it up, and learned that it's often misattributed to Nietzsche lol. But it didn't throw me out of the story—I thought it worked fine enough with the 3rd-person distant narration and fit the character being described.

[geraineon]

That's a great way to incorporate references, re: 3K!

... Ah, TKA fics is another reason I wish I can just download the ability to read Chinese into my brain XD