Discussion Friday + Some updates

[geraineon]

Time for discussion Friday~

Discussion Topic

In the past weeks here and elsewhere, I had some fun talking about tragedies (spoilers: I love them).

So, I want to hear from you all! What do you think of tragedies in your novels? What makes it work for you and when does it fall flat (e.g., when you feel absolutely nothing). Do you check if the main CP in a baihe/danmei have a happy end before reading? Will you read a novel if the main characters/main CP die at the end of the story?

Updates

1. I am probably going to run dry on discussion topics if I do this every week, so I'm reducing the frequency to once every two weeks. Please feel free to post up any discussion topics any time though! If you want to submit topics but don't want to make a post for it, you can suggest them here.


2. For the weeks we do not have a Discussion Friday post, we will have a general chat and Q&A post. Let's call them Friday Chats (I am not very creative with names, haha). Chinese learners, feel free to use the Friday Chat posts to practice Chinese if you wish!


3. Related to point (2), there are two communities that may be helpful to Chinese learners:
   
   • guardian_learning: Despite it being called guardian_learning, this is not limited to Guardian the novel/drama~ It's a comm that updates with a grammar point and word a day, with sample sentences from Guardian.
   • chinesestudy: This is a comm for Chinese writing practice
   
   You can check them out!

Comments

[aurumcalendula]

It depends on what I'm in the mood for (tbh I tend to go for happy endings over tragedies), but I definitely want to know what I'm getting into, if possible.

[geraineon]

How much would you like to know before getting into something? Do you want to know the major character deaths?

(... this is also related to QJJ/Ballad of Sword and Wine)

[aurumcalendula]

Mostly if the main couple survives the story (or if they don't, if they're at least reunited and happy together by the end).

re: QJJ, Highlight for spoilers! *I believe both Shen Zechuan/Xiao Chiye and Hua Xiangyi/Qi Zhuyin get happy endings and there's a side m/m couple that gets a tragic ending.*

[geraineon]

re: your spoilers

yes! I really like the second pair =(

[geraineon]

Answering my own prompts!

Yes, I love tragedies! I love deaths (but the deaths need to have an impact or at least not feel "cheap"). I love the hole in the heart left behind when a favourite character dies. I'm also always chasing after the high of reading/watching a Good Death (e.g., character did what they wanted to do and die) or the Inevitable March to Death (e.g., character is dying so you know they will be dead by the end of the story, or there's no way out of the political quagmire besides death). I love it when characters are torn up between duty and love (family/friends/romance, etc.).

But if it's done in a way that I feel emotionally manipulated (I don't have a good cnovel example for this, but hm... some Violet Evergarden episodes), then it does nothing to me. I just feel neutral. But the balance of constructing a good tragedy vs. being too explicit about the emotional manipulation vs. too much drama is probably different for everyone, I think.

also yes, I will totally read a story where the main CP dies (or one dies, the other stays alive).

[aurumcalendula]

but the deaths need to have an impact or at least not feel "cheap"

This so much!

[geraineon]

The thing I dislike the most is when the death is not felt at all after the initial reaction (there should be a hole in the shape of the dead person based on their role in the story and relationship to everyone else!). Those deaths feel cheap =(

[douqi]

I do read tragedies (I usually know what they are going in, because the Weibo hive mind tends to warn) and I find it interesting that they tend to be much shorter and also structurally tighter. In relation to the latter, I guess it having to end in a tragedy that makes sense dictates the overall shape of the story to an extent that doesn't really apply to stories with happy endings?

A lot of international fandom seems to reject queer romance that ends tragically, no doubt due in part to the Bury Your Gays phenomenon. This doesn't seem to hold at all for Chinese c-novel fandom. Another aspect of comparative literary reception I find fascinating. Someone should write a fan studies piece about this instead of the nth 'I interviewed some people who get into flamewars about idols online!' article.

[geraineon]

Ah true. Maybe writing towards a Good Death does make these stories inclined to be structurally tighter.

I'd love to read an article/some fan studies on this phenomena. XD And not just CN vs. EN, but also other languages, other lit!

[douqi]

Haha this would require fan studies to actually get its act together and take TEXTS (rather than just fandoms) seriously, which it is currently showing no signs of doing.

[geraineon]

I confess I don't read a lot of fan studies things but what I've read seems a lot more like sociological studies of fandom *community dynamics* rather than something like this, yeah.

I'm super interested to read about the overlaps and influence of Bl/Yuri on danmei/baihe as well... The former I have more knowledge on, the latter I need to dig.

[douqi]

If you find anything on overlaps, let me know! I would really love a literary exploration of how and where the genres interact!

[geraineon]

This is not an overlap but it came up on my other social media feed today, in case it's of interest: https://www.animeherald.com/2019/02/06/yuri-1919-2019-from-then-to-now/

(if all fails, guess will have to read the history of yuri, and then the history of baihe, trope conventions, and then do own comparison, ahaha)

[douqi]

Thank you for the link! :)

[halfcactus]

If you're taking name suggestions, mine are "Casual Friday" or "Free-for-all Friday" to keep the naming format (though obviously I'm perfectly okay with "Friday Chat").

As for tragedies... I love some good old angst but I am afraid of pain. 😂 I've only read one novel with a "bad" ending, but from that character's PoV it was a happy ending, and it tore me up in a good way.

[geraineon]

Suggestions totally welcome! I like Free for all Friday!

Which novel is that?

And haha, I get you! My friends and I sometimes joke that the Bad Ends in JP visual novels are sometimes actually Good Ends (because they are painful in a good way)