Translation question and search!

[yueliangist]

edit: thank you for all the replies!! in hindsight, i feel a little silly with this entry because it's totally logical to finish reading it first, or reading something shorter instead LOL. in any case, i really appreciate everyone's ideas and advice^^

Short intro: I'm a CN learner with a love for danmei/baihe/media and since the beginning of my learning journey I've always had a wish of one day helping with making the baihe community more accessible to (lower level) learners.

I've been stuck in a cycle with translation practicing recently:

I want to start translating a webnovel I've been reading to practice, but I feel like I need to have read the entire thing before I can even start, I'm just a really slow reader and It's so demotivating to "have" to wait. What do you guys think?

It probably does not help that I'd be by myself so I guess this is also my post regarding my search for an editor, as I am merely a learner and will probably make a lot of mistakes.

The webnovel I want to use for my translation practice is 与影后闪婚后, I'm currently 15 chapters of 118 in and 100% sure this is the one I want to tl.

Thanks in advance or replies!

与影后闪婚后 jjwxc link: https://www.jjwxc.net/onebook.php?novelid=3022425

Comments

[larryhammer]

I'm probably not the best person to answer this, as I hate even reading things that aren't complete, let alone translate them. (This might be why I mostly stick to classics these days.) Can't say I've never translated a work in progress, but Yotsuba&! is a special case as it's not exactly a story where the plot matters, or even exists.

I will say, as a translator, I would be extremely uncomfortable translating a novel I haven't read to the end. So many things can happen, later on, that change your interpretation of earlier scenes, passages, sentences -- in ways that affect how you render them. I'd be even more uncomfortable letting anyone else see it till I finished and had a chance to revise through from the start.

(That said, I've been serializing early drafts of a translation of 道德经 even though I haven't gotten through it, willfully, but being explicit that pretty much everything is provisional till I have full context and can make final decisions. I'm not entirely consistent, no.)

[anne]

I've only translated French to English, but I think the principles are the same: translation for practice and improvement is a good way to learn, but people who aren't fluent should absolutely not try to publish their translations. It's great that you're learning Chinese--I am too!--but translation is an art that requires a lot of cultural and linguistic fluency. Especially in Chinese! I mean look at early English-language fanon for LWJ: he's speaking in chengyu, but English speakers didn't know that. So in English fics instead of quoting Shakespeare he talks like a caveman.

Get fluent in Chinese first, read your novel as slowly as you want, and also read other things in Chinese--poetry (which is super hard), history, folklore...and read in English, too, so you can match the register of whatever you're translating. LWJ doesn't talk like WWX. Priest doesn't write like Mu Su Li. (and don't use machines or AI. Human brains are still the best at this.)

[hazevi]

Let me start off first by saying I totally understand the feelings of impatience. Reading and translating are both two very time consuming endeavors, especially if you've come in with Chinese not being your first language. I feel it from time and time again too! And the accessibility thing for the baihe community is very important/feels of the essence right now so I want to commend your enthusiasm.

I'd still lightly advise against starting translation of something if you haven't finished reading it though. Perhaps I'm being harsh, but if you feel impatient at your reading speed then maybe your language level isn't at the place you'd want it to be for translation. I feel I read at a decent pace and I still feel like i struggle with general inadequacy at translation, although that is also a skill issue on my part. And like others have mentioned, finishing the whole book is usually doing a service to yourself and the translation process, although the other point I want to make is that usually, don't go into a book early on with expectations that you want to do anything with it. It feels better to be moved as just a reader the first time around and then think about it from a translation standpoint upon revisiting.

The thing about 'waiting' and demotivation is that it's so intertwined with the process of both reading and translating; for me it's often waiting for my brain/friends to debate through options or find some workaround or think about how to do foreshadowing in English. You need to get through things that are long and perhaps not as interesting and it's very very time consuming, and it's not like you can just skip over them. Looking at the length of the novel you put I'd say it'd hypothetically take me a year or even more on a good pace to go through first drafts and editing, which surely is longer than the time it'd take for you to read it. I guess my general stance on it is to remind yourself that 好事多磨.

I totally understand the sense of urgency though. If you feel like you just want to start practicing, honestly maybe try looking through the short stories section to see if they are easier to read, and start practicing translation on those? Or if you'd like another option perhaps see if there's baihe fanfic you're interested in and ask Chinese authors to translate to English since fanfic can be shorter/easier to understand. I'm also down to edit if you need it. Good luck <3

[yueliangist]

thank you hazevi!! i also wanted to look into shorter baihe, but i just hadn't found one yet. the fanfic idea is really good though!!

[xinger]

That's fantastic! It's awesome that you're learning a language and you love it enough to want to combine it with something else you love! I think you should go for it ♥ If you wait until you're ready you could wait forever and still not feel "good enough."

Fanwork is a labor of love. If you're translating for practice, you're not doing it on commission, for profit, or for exchange, and you don't have to meet anyone's standards but your own. No one says that people who write fanfic have to reach a certain level with their writing before they're allowed to share it. You don't have to reach a certain level with your translation before you're allowed to share it.

If you've found something that motivates you to continue learning and growing, you should grab hold of it fiercely and immediately and not let anything discourage you. Don't wait until you know everything: about how the story ends, about how the language works, or about the practice of translation. Learn by doing, or you'll never learn to do ♥

Start now and your second attempt will be better than your first one. If you don't start now, you'll always be on your first attempt.

Can't wait to read your translation ♥♥

[halfcactus]

I... have an unfortunate and terrible habit of subtitling things as I'm watching them lmfao. I'm not a very serious learner/fantranslator, though. I also tend to work on short clips that I curate myself, never full episodes. and I've seen other people translate novel scenes for practice. Maybe you can do that to scratch your itch while still focusing on reading since you're also still working on your reading ability/speed?

I've done the "translating a book as I read it" thing once but it was 100% private and mostly for personal notetaking purposes. ^^; I ended up only doing 2 chapters and then giving up on note-taking/annotating to focus on reading ahahaha.

PS. Seconding fanfic translation as a short project, though one might have to contact the author for permission...

[dayadhvam_triad]

If you want to practice translation, I think there's nothing wrong with giving it a try before you finish reading the novel. But I also think it's best to set clear expectations for yourself: do you have the whole novel in mind, or just selected scenes? If purely for practice, I suggest you focus on translating scenes you particularly like, which can also motivate you to keep reading. If you want to eventually translate the whole novel and share it with readers, I second that you finish reading it before tackling its tl as a project, because it will be much easier to handle scenes interpreted differently in light of later chapters, scene callbacks, deliberate repetition of themes/phrases, etc. that can affect the tl choices you make in earlier chapters.

Just to share a bit about my own tl practice experience: I started with tling scenes from a novel that already had an ongoing translation, so my goal was explicitly NOT to tl the whole novel, but to practice with the scenes I really liked (always a motivation plus) and see how my choices differed from others'. Those excerpts ranged from 2-3 paragraphs to a stripped-down dialogue-only section /lazy to nearly a whole chapter. I learned a lot throughout the process about (my own preferences for) what words with what connotations would work better, the preservation vs. overhauling of sentence structure, the punctuation conversion from CN to EN norms... I posted these publicly too, b/c practice doesn't have to be private if you feel comfortable enough sharing it. It's interesting to reread my old practice stuff because older me can pick out what I'd tl differently and what I'd keep the same. (And my current on-and-off novel tl project is also most definitely NOT the entire novel—just particular scenes I love, purely for fun.)

I also think fic tl is a good option! After my initial practice above^, I switched to translating fanfic, which make for more manageable projects—almost all my fic tls are oneshots, so The End was always in sight when I worked on them. And doing lots of fic by different authors also exposed me to a variety of prose styles, which was an unintended bonus. If you have any concerns about asking for permission from cfic authors, I can say that out of the 20+ times I've asked to tl fic I've only once received a (super polite) refusal.

+1 keep reading in English too to reinforce your sense of what sounds more natural in English. It's mad easy for translationese to get stuck in your brain when it's been steeped at length in CN -> EN thoughts (at least in my experience orz).

加油!! \o/!

[duckprintspress]

hi! I'd say, you can always start your translation but not post it/share until you finish reading the whole thing, then edit the parts you've done if you need to after reading the end.

[autodach]

It's definitely beneficial to read the whole novel first, but not strictly necessary. Be prepared to go back and edit translation choices you made before new context was revealed if you translate on the fly.
Also you need to be honest with your readers about what you are and aren't doing. Make it clear you're a learner using the novel for practice, and that it's WIP.
Overall you shouldn't underestimate the scale of this project. Maybe start with your favourite chapter or scene to test things out?

[amarylilac]

Hi, native CN speaker here!

I am no translator, but if I want to summarize something I'd read in CN in English (or vice-versa) I prefer to wait until I finish the whole thing, because my impression of the work can be very different when I reach the conclusion of the story (even if I still like it!).

Still, I don't think it's wrong to do a little tl before you finish the whole novel, especially if you just want to practice in private. I agree with everyone who suggests that you start with something on a smaller scale (e.g. a favorite scene from the novel, a CN fanfic, etc.) though.

I can't commit to helping with editing right now, but I am welling to take a look at the CN text and chat with you about my interpretation if you do not find an editor and run into problems while tl-ing (my responses could be slow though, sorry!)

[llonkrebboj]

Finding a novel you adore (and knowing that within the first quarter!) and would love to share is awesome :D Congrats.

If you don't mind me asking, what stage of language learning are you at for Chinese, and do you have a pool of fellow learners or any friend who is fluent? There is a Chinese Study Group discord server run by tumblr user meichenxi if you'd like some company. There is also a channel for help that includes translatioin advice.

And then tools for reading! You may already be familiar with these, but there are some great online resources (sites/apps that imput pinyin above Chinese text on a webpage for example) and hover dictionaries that can help a lot with reading. If you don't already use them and are interested, lmk and I can get some recs from friends!

+1 to A's unfortunate and terrible habit of translating on the fly xD I tend to do that too, especially novel snippets for fun, bits of classical chinese passages (which I have not read in full and am also a learner of), and poetry.

The best way to figure out if it'll work for you or not is to give it a try - a scene you like, half a fun chapter or a favourite chapter. Novel translation is a long committment, and tends to test one's love of a story xD because close-reading the way that's needed tends to magnify a lot of writing habits, style, word use etc. that can be overlooked when reading casually, immersed in the heat of the plot.

Also co-signing everything dtraid, A and autodach said xD

One last thing to add - I think something that's worth a try is posting to a place where you can control the privacy settings. That way, you can get the thrill of posting and also the time to go back and fix the inevitable typos and mistakes.
(Oh the number of things I've started and dropped in public and in private... 😅)